On 12/5/2011 5:48 PM, Tim wrote: > On Mon, 2011-12-05 at 09:20 -0800, Robert M. Witkop wrote: > Years ago, I also used computers long before we'd even heard of Windows. > My own first real personal computer was the Amiga, and that was chosen > after being thoroughly put off by the other personal computers that I'd > had a play with (that others owned). I liked it for what it was, how it > worked (much better than the alternatives, at the time), and what could > be done with it. I could look after it quite easily, and there were few > secrets. > > A few years later, I faced the no-choice of having to get a PC, to be > able to do stuff in a PC-only world (or the majority of it being that > way, that it might as well be PC-only). And I got sick of it real > quick. It was, and still is, a suicidal OS, plagued with problems, and > probably always will be. Another thing that really pissed me off, about > it, was how much of it was secret. I got really really sick of the "see > your admin" error messages. I was the admin, there was no one to ask. > The built-in help was crap, the manual gave no information about the > issues. Help on the WWW was far from satisfactory, and even when you > did find an answer that was correct, the solutions were utterly > ludicrous from a computing point of view (the design/philosophy of > Windows is just plain nuts). And really, the only way to know what > you're doing (if you wanted to make a job out of IT), rather than be > some klutz who might stumble on a few things, was to go on some > expensive training course, again and again. And, when you look into > what some of these course were about, it was galling. Networking > training reduced down from knowing about administrating TCP/IP, to > merely learning the crapped out way that Windows does it. Forget about > learning about DNS, or TCP/IP traffic, or any of that, just learn which > boxes to fill in for this version of Windows. Then go on another > expensive course when they release a new version. One of these courses > was little more than what you see in the setting up your network, in the > installation guide for Fedora. It was that /sparse/ in info. Fill in > the blanks, don't actually learn about what you're doing. > > Then, at long last, Linux came to a point where it was usable as a > personal computer, in the current world. I dropped Windows in a flash. > Never regretted it. Enjoyed the lack of secrecy (documentation, things > working in a sensible manner that you could work out the local > implementation, source code if you wanted to peruse it, no hidden files > on your drive from package installations that you can't tell what will > put where), and the return to a sane filing system (non-suicidal filing > system, files stored in sensible places, separation of system's from > application's from user's files). But over the last few years I keep > seeing one Linux-thing after another going Windows-like (dumb ideas, > cloning Windows, no documentation, go see your admin). With developers > either copying the worlds worst examples of computing (i.e. Windows), > and not knowing (because they've never used other systems), or not > acknowledging that the Windows way is the horrible way. Or it's Windows > developers migrating to a different OS (Linux) and just carrying on > doing the same crap, instead of learning how to do thing in a better > way. I suspect the latter, since it seems to be that it used to be Unix > users going off to Linux, since Unix was expensive but they could afford > to personally use Linux as a similar alternative, so we got a lot of the > Unix mindset (designed by computer boffins). But now it seems to be > Windows users doing the same thing, migrating from an expensive or > pirated product, to something they can afford to play with, and they're > building stuff (but with all the lack of experience of a teenage hacker, > someone who just cobbles together something that seems to work, but > doesn't integrate well into an established system, and then they mess up > rest of the system to suit their hack, instead of fitting in). > > >> I know "opinions are like a part of our anatomy in that everyone has >> on", and I usually keep my opinions to myself, but GNOME3 is so >> different from 2 that it should have been forked as a new product, not >> put out as a revision. > > I tend to agree. If some of the Gnome developers (or the same applies > to KDE), wanted to go out in a radically different direction, they > should have started their own new project, and left the current one to > those interested in it. > > If the old Gnome, or KDE, or whatever, continued or died a natural > death, that would be it. The current debacle has been a forced > termination. It virtually precludes some from continuing on with > working on the older desktop, because it's been deliberately poisoned. > > And it's not just the change in direction, it's the huge increase in > computing power that's a big problem. Some years ago, Compiz came out, > with fancy flashy effects for your desktop (pretty, but unessential). > That required a 3D accelerated card, which wasn't appreciated very much. > Those of us with the hardware had a play, but would notice that Compiz, > by itself, was using almost all the available resources. The computer > was getting sluggish, the card was getting very hot. Never mind wanting > to do other things with your computer, than merely run the desktop. I > want to browse three page, at the same time, while writing a document, > while listening to some sound file... I could actually do that > pre-bloated desktop era. And the new Gnome, requiring lots grunt, has > gone down the same path. *And* by all accounts, the fallback option > still has bloated needs. > > Buying new and expensive hardware every few years, for artificially > necessary reasons, is the Windows mindset. And it doesn't work well for > Linux, because you also need Linux drivers for the hardware, and you > find that your hardware purchase choices are narrowed down to about > three items. > > No, I'm not being a stick in the mud, I'm being pragmatic. My design > background is more electronics than computing, but the same principles > apply. Designing something with extreme, and difficult to fulfil, > requirements, is not sensible. > +50 -- users mailing list users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
