Re: The Linus view of GNOME 3.2

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

 



On 12/5/2011 5:48 PM, Tim wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-12-05 at 09:20 -0800, Robert M. Witkop wrote:
> Years ago, I also used computers long before we'd even heard of Windows.
> My own first real personal computer was the Amiga, and that was chosen
> after being thoroughly put off by the other personal computers that I'd
> had a play with (that others owned).  I liked it for what it was, how it
> worked (much better than the alternatives, at the time), and what could
> be done with it.  I could look after it quite easily, and there were few
> secrets.
>
> A few years later, I faced the no-choice of having to get a PC, to be
> able to do stuff in a PC-only world (or the majority of it being that
> way, that it might as well be PC-only).  And I got sick of it real
> quick.  It was, and still is, a suicidal OS, plagued with problems, and
> probably always will be.  Another thing that really pissed me off, about
> it, was how much of it was secret.  I got really really sick of the "see
> your admin" error messages.  I was the admin, there was no one to ask.
> The built-in help was crap, the manual gave no information about the
> issues.  Help on the WWW was far from satisfactory, and even when you
> did find an answer that was correct, the solutions were utterly
> ludicrous from a computing point of view (the design/philosophy of
> Windows is just plain nuts).  And really, the only way to know what
> you're doing (if you wanted to make a job out of IT), rather than be
> some klutz who might stumble on a few things, was to go on some
> expensive training course, again and again.  And, when you look into
> what some of these course were about, it was galling.  Networking
> training reduced down from knowing about administrating TCP/IP, to
> merely learning the crapped out way that Windows does it.  Forget about
> learning about DNS, or TCP/IP traffic, or any of that, just learn which
> boxes to fill in for this version of Windows.  Then go on another
> expensive course when they release a new version.  One of these courses
> was little more than what you see in the setting up your network, in the
> installation guide for Fedora.  It was that /sparse/ in info.  Fill in
> the blanks, don't actually learn about what you're doing.
>
> Then, at long last, Linux came to a point where it was usable as a
> personal computer, in the current world.  I dropped Windows in a flash.
> Never regretted it.  Enjoyed the lack of secrecy (documentation, things
> working in a sensible manner that you could work out the local
> implementation, source code if you wanted to peruse it, no hidden files
> on your drive from package installations that you can't tell what will
> put where), and the return to a sane filing system (non-suicidal filing
> system, files stored in sensible places, separation of system's from
> application's from user's files).  But over the last few years I keep
> seeing one Linux-thing after another going Windows-like (dumb ideas,
> cloning Windows, no documentation, go see your admin).  With developers
> either copying the worlds worst examples of computing (i.e. Windows),
> and not knowing (because they've never used other systems), or not
> acknowledging that the Windows way is the horrible way.  Or it's Windows
> developers migrating to a different OS (Linux) and just carrying on
> doing the same crap, instead of learning how to do thing in a better
> way.  I suspect the latter, since it seems to be that it used to be Unix
> users going off to Linux, since Unix was expensive but they could afford
> to personally use Linux as a similar alternative, so we got a lot of the
> Unix mindset (designed by computer boffins).  But now it seems to be
> Windows users doing the same thing, migrating from an expensive or
> pirated product, to something they can afford to play with, and they're
> building stuff (but with all the lack of experience of a teenage hacker,
> someone who just cobbles together something that seems to work, but
> doesn't integrate well into an established system, and then they mess up
> rest of the system to suit their hack, instead of fitting in).
>
>
>> I know "opinions are like a part of our anatomy in that everyone has
>> on", and I usually keep my opinions to myself, but GNOME3 is so
>> different from 2 that it should have been forked as a new product, not
>> put out as a revision.
>
> I tend to agree.  If some of the Gnome developers (or the same applies
> to KDE), wanted to go out in a radically different direction, they
> should have started their own new project, and left the current one to
> those interested in it.
>
> If the old Gnome, or KDE, or whatever, continued or died a natural
> death, that would be it.  The current debacle has been a forced
> termination.  It virtually precludes some from continuing on with
> working on the older desktop, because it's been deliberately poisoned.
>
> And it's not just the change in direction, it's the huge increase in
> computing power that's a big problem.  Some years ago, Compiz came out,
> with fancy flashy effects for your desktop (pretty, but unessential).
> That required a 3D accelerated card, which wasn't appreciated very much.
> Those of us with the hardware had a play, but would notice that Compiz,
> by itself, was using almost all the available resources.  The computer
> was getting sluggish, the card was getting very hot.  Never mind wanting
> to do other things with your computer, than merely run the desktop.  I
> want to browse three page, at the same time, while writing a document,
> while listening to some sound file...  I could actually do that
> pre-bloated desktop era.  And the new Gnome, requiring lots grunt, has
> gone down the same path.  *And* by all accounts, the fallback option
> still has bloated needs.
>
> Buying new and expensive hardware every few years, for artificially
> necessary reasons, is the Windows mindset.  And it doesn't work well for
> Linux, because you also need Linux drivers for the hardware, and you
> find that your hardware purchase choices are narrowed down to about
> three items.
>
> No, I'm not being a stick in the mud, I'm being pragmatic.  My design
> background is more electronics than computing, but the same principles
> apply.  Designing something with extreme, and difficult to fulfil,
> requirements, is not sensible.
>

+50
-- 
users mailing list
users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org


[Index of Archives]     [Older Fedora Users]     [Fedora Announce]     [Fedora Package Announce]     [EPEL Announce]     [EPEL Devel]     [Fedora Magazine]     [Fedora Summer Coding]     [Fedora Laptop]     [Fedora Cloud]     [Fedora Advisory Board]     [Fedora Education]     [Fedora Security]     [Fedora Scitech]     [Fedora Robotics]     [Fedora Infrastructure]     [Fedora Websites]     [Anaconda Devel]     [Fedora Devel Java]     [Fedora Desktop]     [Fedora Fonts]     [Fedora Marketing]     [Fedora Management Tools]     [Fedora Mentors]     [Fedora Package Review]     [Fedora R Devel]     [Fedora PHP Devel]     [Kickstart]     [Fedora Music]     [Fedora Packaging]     [Fedora SELinux]     [Fedora Legal]     [Fedora Kernel]     [Fedora OCaml]     [Coolkey]     [Virtualization Tools]     [ET Management Tools]     [Yum Users]     [Yosemite News]     [Gnome Users]     [KDE Users]     [Fedora Art]     [Fedora Docs]     [Fedora Sparc]     [Libvirt Users]     [Fedora ARM]

  Powered by Linux