Re: Any arguments for keeping Yum case-sensitive?

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On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 17:01, Alan Cox <alan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Ah but you see here is one of your problems. Do you want the question
>
> Â Â Â Âis RPM name A == RPM name B
>
> to depend upon locale ? Isn't that a bit of a hazard - imagine if you
> have multiple respositories and your dependancies pulled a different
> package in German to English locales ?
>

This is the only good point made against case insensitivity so far.
However, I know of no locale that does not handle the first 128 UTF-8
characters used in ASCII with the conventional case assignments. I
deal with non-ASCII codings often (my own language is not covered in
ASCII, and I maintain a popular service for decypering wrongly-encoded
texts).


>> There's nothing particularly special about rules that say character
>> numbers so-and-so are equivalent to character numbers so-and-so, in
>> sections throughout the repertoire, with other blocks of characters that
>
> There is a lot special. The rules for caseless comparison of the unicode
> character set, case conversion and the like are huge. Some languages
> don't have such a concept, some differ on how they are compared. The
> comparison of accented and non-accented character variants is also a big
> deal that Americanglish doesn't have to deal with but the rest of the
> world does.
>

That is also a deal that either will or will not come up when
installing packages with yum. Let's look at those two scenarios:
1) There do not exist packages with non-ASCII characters in the
filename. Yay, we're done.
2) There do exist packages with non-ASCII characters in the filename.
Now how do you plan on installing them if you are on the C locale via
SSH? The only way to install them would be if yum supported case
insensitivity.


> Even apparently simple things like German throw in some absolute gems.
> Try for example à which has no upper case ligature but translates into a
> pair of 'S'. Then the fun starts - how do you determine if any given pair
> of SS ligatures in German are the same as à if lower cased. Greek has
> position dependant casing while in Turkish the letter I is a whole little
> bomb of its own.
>

How do I install the beiÃen.rpm package if yum won't recognise
"beisen.rpm" (assuming that yum will ensure that there is no
conflicting "beisen.rpm" package)?


>> don't have equivalents. ÂUnicode just extends the size of the
>> repertoire.
>
> And the rule set, and the number of case forms (upper, low and title) -
> see upper/lower isn't really enough.
>
> Welcome to planet Earth as seen by the rest of us
>
> At this point you hopefully start to see why "Did you mean XYZ" is much
> easier to implement, and also more useful !
>
> There are very very good reasons to keep "is RPM name A the same as RPM
> name B" a question that is not dependant upon anything else. Case is a
> concept that doesn't have that property.
>

No one is arguing that RPM name A should be treated as RPM name B.
What is being argued is that yum should offer the option of accepting
RPM name B under the following conditions:
1) RPM name B does not exist in any configured repos.
2) RPM name A contains characters such that, given the C locale,
lowerCase(nameA)==lowerCase(nameB).

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://gibberish.co.il
http://what-is-what.com
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