Re: Is there a better Alternative to Thunderbird ? <Why I use a Mac>

[Manuel Escudero <Jmlevick@xxxxxxxxx>]

2011/2/4 Michael Miles <mmamiga6@xxxxxxxxx>

-----Original Message-----
From: users-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:users-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of James McKenzie
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 10:10
To: users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Is there a better Alternative to Thunderbird ? <Why I use a
Mac>

> On 02/03/2011 11:20 AM, Robert Myers wrote:
> You can't say Linux won't be a factor on the desktop. I have a number
> of relatively unsophisticated users running CentOS as their desktop
> and they're quite happy. Oh, they look at my stuff and "ooh" and "aah"
> at some of the niftiness, but they'll get it when it's stable.
<Major Soapbox entered the room, set down and I jumped on it>
If I could get Fedora or CentOS running on my old Thinkpad, I would move
back to Linux. ÂI would have to go find an external DVD player.

I use a Mac because it 'works'. ÂThere is not a major program out there
that I cannot find a Mac equivilent for that 'works'. ÂNot so for Linux.
ÂYou cannot find a program with the functionality and flexibility of
AutoCad. ÂAll of the third party programs are missing some essential
function that AutoCad has.

If I buy a Dell, it will NOT come with Linux (it is an option) as I work
in a Windows environment and I still feel that Linux is NOT ready to be
a prime-time desktop OS (WAY to many quirks and hoops.) ÂIt will come
with Windows7. ÂIt is very MacOSX like and does not have a crash a day
problem.

I switched to using a Mac after LOTS of investigation and watching the
Windows98SE/ME disaster (Microsoft usually screws it up once before
getting it right.) ÂI was using RH 9/FC 1, 2, 3, 4 and I did not like
the new release every six months. ÂHowever, as you, I and others have
pointed out, Fedora is an experimental OS, for RH to try and 'get it
right'. ÂThat was after IBM dropped support for OS/2 on the SOHO desktop.

Now, before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, I've been playing
around with 'PCs' before such a term existed. ÂI've run various versions
of Linux/UNIX since the mid 1990s and was a great fanboy of OS/2 (too
bad IBM dropped the ball on that one.) ÂI would love to say that Linux
is a great OS, and in many cases it is. ÂHowever, for Joe Windows Fanboy
it is not ready. ÂMany Windows programs do not and will not have a fully
functional Linux one. ÂLinux remains a niche product in many ways.

Gnome/KDE 'wars' and others aside, if you watch the folks in Redmond
work, you would know why Linux is going to win the Server wars, and
Windows has such a great grip on the Desktop. ÂUntil Linux can support
99% of all hardware OUT OF THE BOX, with no tweaking and other
non-sense, then it will not even have a fighting chance. ÂFolks are
loathe to sell/give away their old hardware and Apple still supports the
G-3 Graphite that my SO owns. ÂI cannot say that for ANY PC company
(Dell, Gateway, IBM, and a few others).

Sad to say, but I may have to become a Windows Fanboy to get what I need
done, without having to beat on a system all day long.

When Linux gets to that level, it will be a winner. ÂOtherwise, it will
continue to be an operating system for servers and cell phones.

<Jim leaves the room, taking his soapbox with him.>

> <soap>
> MacOS doesn't release often and Macs are very controlled environments
> and don't have to cater to millions of different hardware combos unlike
> most Linux environments. ÂWindows hasn't had a major release since
> Windows 7, just bug and security fixes (lots of those).
</soap>

And so did Solaris and other operating systems. ÂThis is called quality
control. ÂIf the IBM versus Tandy case had gone the other way, we would
all be using IBM hardware/software. ÂWe would still be running ATs with
a green screen. ÂThat is called innovation...

> Windows stability? ÂRemember the travesty that was Vista?
No but I remember ME, which was MUCH worse.

> Fedora is, by definition, experimental. ÂIf one wishes stability, then
> use CentOS or RHEL or another "stable" release. ÂI can't name another
> OS with a 6-month (more or less) lifetime. ÂWe are on the bleeding edge
> with Fedora. ÂIt's called that because you must expect to be wounded
> occasionally when playing with sharp objects.
Yes, it is and you have good advice for anyone wanting to run Linux. ÂI
don't dispise Linux, I think it is very 'neat'. ÂI just don't want to
have to go through the hoops to get it to work anymore.

BTW, Windows XP SP3 runs on the hardware I have, slowly. ÂLinux cannot
even bring up X. ÂThat is a sad case.

James McKenzie

Very well said....

Michael

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Hummm, All that paragraph that James Mackenzie wrote is really mistaken, I will only give my

opinion on that ok? I don't believe I have the reason or something like that, but I think this way:

Reading between Lines:

"If I could get Fedora or CentOS running on my old Thinkpad, I would move
back to Linux. ÂI would have to go find an external DVD player..."

ÂHow many RAM does your computer has? You can Run Fedora + LXDE

with at least 128MB in RAM and it will run better than XP or others... Also,Â

why you need an external unit? We have USB's and you can install the O.S.Â

from there...

"I use a Mac because it 'works'... Not so for Linux"

Humm... We have an equivalent for almost everything and they run just fine, I believeÂ

any Linux alternative for any program has very much power as the Windows/Mac original

program has. For example, to raplace AutoCAD we have Archimedes and gCAD3D. Also, for

some other programs you have PlayOnLinux/Wine as an alternative and you have also the possibility

of Running a Virtual Machine via VMWare Player/Virtualbox (if you have a strong enough machine)

to run Windows and some programs of it's own.

What I wanted to say with that, is that you pick one or other enviroment not based exactly on their programs

but in many other things... For example, I use Linux because I was tired of viruses and HDD errors that made me

wipe the computer once every 2/3 months, it's more secure that windows, it's more reliable, it's the best out there.

Mac it's just expensive, a Mac Computer costs 3 times more it's real value, and they're only PC's!!! Hardware, Software...

if I want an OS that can run any hardware only by plugging it, without viruses and with an alternative for every program

out there, I'll use Linux buying a powerful PC and putting a Linux Distro inside of it, also I like the "lastest things"

so, for example, fedora is the best O.S. for me, Don't like to have something for many many long time...

"Fedora is an experimental OS for RH to try and get it right"

And that's a myth buddy :) Fedora was born as an opportunity of keep giving a free O.S. always very updated to the final user

because Red Hat decided to move it's developing path to focus into more stable software that could be mantained for large periods

of time without the need for radical changes, They wasn't able to provide the lastest technology and that kind of service

in only one distro, so they splitted up in two paths: For servers (that are those that need to be mantained without very much

changes over the years) and for Desktops: (these are the ones for normal users, the market of everyday's person

who likes to get the lastest technologies and innovations quite soon).

Okey, maybe the company analizes the different features developed in fedora in order to decide if get them into RHEL or not,

They're also awared about all the new features and technologies that appear in the Linux world, just like any other company that offers

systems with large maintenance periods (in this case for servers) does. If that myth was actually the truth, we will be saying that all the

Desktop Operating Systems are just BETAS for Server's ones and we will be fooling ourselves.

"Linux remains a niche product in many ways"

I don't think so... I've been installing linux in many PC's for some time ago and

I have to say, my users can't be more happy with it, they even say things like:

"Wow! How it's possible I'm meeting this right now!" and that's because, with

every installation I do, I also prepare the computer for almost everything without

"bloating" it... Linux isn't the problem... The people around Linux is the problem...

For example, every new user has to follow a "Post-Installation" guide in order to get all of the things

right in it's Linux, and that stands also for Mac and Windows user. Every O.S. Need you to follow

some steps to "tweak it" as you like or need just after installing it. I never seen a O.S. that has

almost everything without bloating itself.. THE ONLY O.S. that can almost successfully accomplish

this goal (And this is just my opinion) is PARDUS LINUX.

"Sad to say, but I may have to become a Windows Fanboy to get what I need

done, without having to beat on a system all day long."

So tell me, What do you have to "get done" in Linux that makes you "fight with the system"

in order to get it? If you need a windows instance, use VMware or VirtualBox, as I see it,Â

if Linux has more advantages, I'll use it for my real PC, and if I have to use Windows

for some forced reason, Instead of compromising my computer's integrity, I'll run it insideÂ

Vbox...

"I just don't want to

have to go through the hoops to get it to work anymore."

Then, DON'T USE FEDORA!! fedora isn't for a person Like you,

if you want a "FULLY FUNCTIONAL" linux without doing anything,

then try with Linux Mint, Mandriva or Pardus, but keep away from Fedora, OpenSUSE

and even ubuntu maybe...

"BTW, Windows XP SP3 runs on the hardware I have, slowly. ÂLinux cannot
even bring up X. ÂThat is a sad case."

And, just Remarking my point, if you want to run Linux in very old hardware, forget about gnome

or KDE, use LXDE instead, it's "very windows like" desktop and very much Lighter than WinXP

--
<-Manuel Escudero->
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