On Wednesday 26 May 2010, Máirín Duffy wrote: >On Wed, 2010-05-26 at 23:09 +0200, Marko Vojinovic wrote: >> I thought torrent was precisely invented for this kind of purpose. I >> also held the opinion that torrent is by far the number one method of >> getting Fedora, or any other Linux distro for that matter. > >It isn't. Not even amongst current Fedora users. In the survey we did >that informed this design, only 19% used torrents to get Fedora: I can speak for THIS user, and torrents are the only way I have pulled an iso in at least a year, maybe 18 months. BWT, where _did_ you take this alleged survey? I'm a user, and I don't recall being asked. >http://mairin.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/getting-fedora-survey-results/ > Wordpress again. :( Maybe that explains it. I know of one site that is composed on wordpress, and it gets hacked weekly. If not more often recently. As in before he got done restoring it, it was hacked. >> It offers >> the most efficient downloading speed while keeping the main servers >> off too much load. Also, Windows users shouldn't be underestimated for >> their knowledge of using torrent. > >Honestly? I care about getting the ISO. I really don't care how >efficiently I get it. Saving 5 minutes doesn't matter a whole lot to me. >And for me, with my internet connection - which I understand is probably >better than a lot of folks' connections - that is the main time >difference. :( Thats a rather spoiled brat attitude IMO, the attitude of me, me!, me!. If 25 more can complete the download via torrent because I seed the torrent for a day or three after I've pulled it, and by doing so I have reduced the overall load footprint by making a few others be able to get it from a closer site, then I am more than willing to donate the cycles to run it. However, since there are at the moment 575 other seeders, my share ratio in 7.5 hours of seeding isn't to brag about. There are about 2x the seeders that there are leechers (340) at the moment. >> Removing the torrent from the download page is just a poor design >> decision, IMHO. > >It's quite easy for you to say that not understanding all of the >constraints and complications involved in the design. I would like to >suggest that you either not say that if you don't know it to be true, or >if you truly believe you are capable of making all of the difficult >design decisions required to put together such a project that you join >the Fedora design team and help out - if this is easy for you, we >absolutely need your expertise. > >> People who get scared off by technical terminology on >> a website offering a Linux operating system should probably be better >> off using Windows or OS X anyway. > >Right, because Linux is only for 31337 newbies, and the middle school >students I've been teaching Inkscape to have no right to download Fedora >to use at home on their own - they are better off asking their parents >to shell out thousands of dollars for Adobe products. +100 >Man. Why do we even bother working on Linux, anyway? I mean, most people >are better off not using it anyway. Why bother? Wow, you've really woken >me up. I think I'll go drop by the Apple store this weekend. > >> It doesn't make much sense to reduce >> available choices and functionality of a website in order to fit to a >> newbie frame of mind. > >I know people who are quite technically sophisticated and who have been >using computers longer than I've been alive who don't know what torrent >is nor care what it is. Just because someone doesn't know about the >jargon that you know doesn't mean they are 'newbie' or even >non-technical. It means they have other things in their life they know >and care about besides operating systems. I think I fit that category, 75, carved my first code for an RCA 1802 back in the 70's. No assembler needed if the board had a 'monitor'. As for other things, I fish a little as I've been told God doesn't charge you for the time you spend fishing when he checks ones allotted time here. >> Following the logic of this kind of design, why does Fedora have a >> download page at all? Anyone can use google, at least anyone who >> aspires to try and install a whole operating system on a computer. Why >> bother offering anything on the website explicitly? ;-) > >No, you're not following the logic correctly at all. Rather, you're >taking my words and stretching them to absurd lengths. Please don't do >that, it's pointless. Actually. I've been getting some levity from them. They are pointless to you maybe, but serve to well demo a lack of understanding of the real world that exists in the fedora users world, which is what this mailing list purports to be. If it is no longer that, then I suggest a name change and yet another list be setup FOR the users. That at least was the description when I signed up the first time about 12 years ago. The list has been renamed and moved a few times of course, almost as if Red Hat is trying to run from its users. >~m -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The first rule of all intelligent tinkering is to keep all the parts. -- Aldo Leopold, quoted in Donald Wurster's "Nature's Economy" -- users mailing list users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
