On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Arthur Pemberton <pemboa@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
That last option is to me what's inexcusable. We (and by "we" I mean the community) shouldn't be marketing things to newbies so that they attempt to install it, spend a week trying to get something working, then give up and install windows again, with a permanent bad taste in their mouth regarding linux. Say what you want about Gentoo - at least it makes no pretenses.
But then we have stuff like NetworkManager, which seems to be in place solely to make Fedora easier to use by newbies - and in the process screwing people who actually *do* know what they're doing and just having stuff like that get in the way.
Why is it so difficult to turn pulseaudio off? Why did NetworkManager keep restarting itself after I shut it down - even to the point of *shutting off the services*? Why was SElinux introduced in such a halfassed way that my default behavior on any new fedora install was to shut it off? Why was KDE 4 introduced when it was not ready for primetime? (I really dislike it, I would have rather stuck with 3.5 and had 4.0 as an option - it wouldn't have been all that much more difficult to do a side by side and a way to select between them. And I was a KDE developer!)
It seems like I'm being hard on you guys. OK, I am. But it's just because I see what Fedora was and could still be, and instead I'm sitting here fighting with it because it's done in such an unpolished and schizophrenic manner.
--Russell
A newbie would likely either stick with the OSS drivers, (assuming
they get at least 1024x768) or they would Google it, or they would
give up.
That last option is to me what's inexcusable. We (and by "we" I mean the community) shouldn't be marketing things to newbies so that they attempt to install it, spend a week trying to get something working, then give up and install windows again, with a permanent bad taste in their mouth regarding linux. Say what you want about Gentoo - at least it makes no pretenses.
Also, I personally think that Fedora should have an explicit warning
against use by computer newbies (ie. people not interested in fiddling
with their install at all) -- this is a separate topic, but I fee that
Fedora's FOSS idealism (which I like) currently stands in the way of
ease of use due to he behavior of most hardware manufactures.
But then we have stuff like NetworkManager, which seems to be in place solely to make Fedora easier to use by newbies - and in the process screwing people who actually *do* know what they're doing and just having stuff like that get in the way.
Why is it so difficult to turn pulseaudio off? Why did NetworkManager keep restarting itself after I shut it down - even to the point of *shutting off the services*? Why was SElinux introduced in such a halfassed way that my default behavior on any new fedora install was to shut it off? Why was KDE 4 introduced when it was not ready for primetime? (I really dislike it, I would have rather stuck with 3.5 and had 4.0 as an option - it wouldn't have been all that much more difficult to do a side by side and a way to select between them. And I was a KDE developer!)
It seems like I'm being hard on you guys. OK, I am. But it's just because I see what Fedora was and could still be, and instead I'm sitting here fighting with it because it's done in such an unpolished and schizophrenic manner.
--Russell
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