============================================ #fedora-meeting: Infrastructure (2013-05-16) ============================================ Meeting started by nirik at 19:00:03 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-05-16/infrastructure.2013-05-16-19.00.log.html . Meeting summary --------------- * welcome y'all (nirik, 19:00:03) * New folks introductions and Apprentice tasks. (nirik, 19:02:58) * Applications status / discussion (nirik, 19:06:54) * calendar is adding new calendars all the time, looking good so far. (nirik, 19:07:45) * some freeze break fixes for tagger went in today. (nirik, 19:08:23) * datagrepper is in production and use cases are starting to appear. (nirik, 19:08:55) * new bodhi on monday just before the freeze. (nirik, 19:09:04) * LINK: http://ambre.pingoured.fr/fedora-news/ (pingou, 19:09:17) * LINK: http://ambre.pingoured.fr/fedora-news/js/fedora_apps.js this is pretty much the whole app (pingou, 19:14:13) * Sysadmin status / discussion (nirik, 19:28:23) * kernel security update out, rebooted some ciritical machines, will do the rest after freeze. (nirik, 19:29:43) * new storage is coming on line soon, working on getting that working. (nirik, 19:32:28) * ansible web quickstart next week for anyone interested in ansible (nirik, 19:32:54) * LINK: http://www.ansibleworks.com/quickstart/ (nirik, 19:33:15) * LINK: http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/cgit/ansible.git/tree/ (skvidal, 19:34:48) * Private Cloud status update / discussion (nirik, 19:36:59) * Upcoming Tasks/Items (nirik, 19:39:30) * LINK: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/list/infrastructure/ (nirik, 19:39:54) * 2013-05-14 to 2013-05-28 BETA infrastructure freeze (nirik, 19:40:51) * 2013-05-19 - bugzilla upgrade. (nirik, 19:40:52) * 2013-05-28 F19 beta release (nirik, 19:40:52) * 2013-05-31 end of 1st quarter (nirik, 19:40:52) * 2013-06-01 nag fi-apprentices (nirik, 19:40:52) * 2013-06-08 drop inactive apprentices (nirik, 19:40:53) * 2013-06-18 to 2013-07-02 FINAL infrastructure freeze. (nirik, 19:40:54) * 2013-07-01 nag fi-apprentices (nirik, 19:40:56) * 2013-07-02 F19 FINAL release (nirik, 19:40:58) * Flock (nirik, 19:41:49) * LINK: http://flock-lmacken.rhcloud.com/proposals (nirik, 19:42:59) * everyone do submit talks / hackfests / sprints / workshops (nirik, 19:45:17) * Open Floor (nirik, 19:46:42) Meeting ended at 19:56:21 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * nirik (119) * skvidal (66) * pingou (61) * threebean (18) * Apsu` (14) * abadger1999 (8) * spot (8) * puiterwijk (7) * zodbot (5) * bitlord (3) * smooge (2) * cyberworm54 (2) * swa_work (2) * lmacken (1) * dgilmore (1) * ricky (0) * mdomsch (0) * CodeBlock (0) -- 19:00:03 <nirik> #startmeeting Infrastructure (2013-05-16) 19:00:03 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu May 16 19:00:03 2013 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:00:03 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:00:03 <nirik> #meetingname infrastructure 19:00:03 <nirik> #topic welcome y'all 19:00:03 <nirik> #chair smooge skvidal CodeBlock ricky nirik abadger1999 lmacken dgilmore mdomsch threebean 19:00:03 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'infrastructure' 19:00:03 <zodbot> Current chairs: CodeBlock abadger1999 dgilmore lmacken mdomsch nirik ricky skvidal smooge threebean 19:00:08 * skvidal is here 19:00:12 * cyberworm54 is here 19:00:20 * abadger1999 here 19:00:56 * nirik waits for folks to wander in 19:01:05 <dgilmore> hola 19:01:18 * puiterwijk 19:01:21 * pingou 19:01:25 * threebean 19:02:00 * bitlord (idling, listening, want to join :-) 19:02:51 <nirik> ok, lets go ahead and start in. 19:02:58 <nirik> #topic New folks introductions and Apprentice tasks. 19:03:08 <nirik> any new folks like to say hi, or apprentices with questions or comments? 19:03:35 <cyberworm54> >.> 19:04:06 <bitlord> I want to say hi. (I'm new to fedora, want to contribute, interested in infrastructure stuff, sysadmin stuff, scripting ,....) (but n00b) 19:04:32 <nirik> welcome bitlord. ;) 19:04:39 <bitlord> thanks :-) 19:04:55 <nirik> do ask questions and hang out in our normal channels and I'm sure something will come along for you to work on. 19:04:58 <pingou> welcome bitlord 19:05:39 <Apsu`> Guess I'll say hi. Deciding if I want to invest in the project. I work on Linux infrastructure, systems and networking for a living. Impressed with the Fedora community, mostly coming from Arch Linux (for non-professional interests). 19:05:52 <nirik> welcome Apsu` 19:06:14 <Apsu`> Danke 19:06:21 <pingou> wilkomen Apsu` 19:06:27 <nirik> bitlord / Apsu`: you might look at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure_Apprentice and if thats something you might be interested in, see me after the meeting in #fedora-admin. 19:06:42 <Apsu`> Will take a look. 19:06:47 <nirik> cool. 19:06:54 <nirik> #topic Applications status / discussion 19:07:03 <nirik> any applications news from this week or upcoming? 19:07:05 <pingou> lots of stuff :) 19:07:09 * nirik notes we are still in freeze 19:07:37 <pingou> threebean: you start :) 19:07:45 <nirik> #info calendar is adding new calendars all the time, looking good so far. 19:07:47 <threebean> I sent in two freeze break requests for tagger. Both have been carried out now and things look stable. I hope to not touch it anymore for a while. ;) 19:08:10 <pingou> datagrepper is in prod 19:08:15 <nirik> #info some freeze break fixes for tagged went in today. 19:08:19 <nirik> #undo 19:08:19 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x22e0c1d0> 19:08:23 <nirik> #info some freeze break fixes for tagger went in today. 19:08:36 <pingou> I bothered *a lot* threebean for datagrepper (and a little for datanommer) 19:08:44 <lmacken> I pushed out a new bodhi release on monday 19:08:55 <nirik> #info datagrepper is in production and use cases are starting to appear. 19:08:59 <pingou> with some ideas in mind: 1) the fedora-owner-change script I sent about yesterday 19:09:04 <nirik> #info new bodhi on monday just before the freeze. 19:09:15 <pingou> and 2) a little surprise I've been working on as of few weeks ago: 19:09:17 <pingou> http://ambre.pingoured.fr/fedora-news/ 19:09:20 <pingou> :) 19:09:28 <threebean> pingou++ 19:09:34 <nirik> pingou: quick calendar question: is there a way to get _all_ calendars ical in one link? 19:09:40 <pingou> nirik: yes 19:10:10 <pingou> nirik: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/calendar/ical/ 19:10:16 <pingou> (just don't specify a calendar) 19:10:19 <nirik> pingou: great. thanks. 19:10:33 <nirik> cool. that fedora-news is interesting. Just a collection from fedmsg? 19:10:39 <pingou> nirik: you asked me for that one ;) 19:10:54 <pingou> nirik: for updates, packages and builds yes 19:11:02 <pingou> for planet and fedocal (not there yet) no 19:11:10 <threebean> pingou: it's mobile-friendly, correct? 19:11:24 <pingou> it works fine on my firefox-os and should work fine as well on Android 19:11:28 <pingou> threebean: completely 19:11:51 <pingou> It's pretty much designed to be a (html5) mobile app 19:11:59 <skvidal> okay that fedora-news thing is slick 19:12:03 <nirik> oh nice. 19:12:06 * swa_work late but here 19:12:16 <pingou> w/ local caching so that you can catch up with the planet posts on the subway/train/tunnel 19:12:19 <threebean> when we get the meta information in datagrepper it'll be even better. links to the events will make it off the hook. 19:12:37 <pingou> threebean: +100 :) 19:12:47 * nirik isn't getting the data, it's just refreshing. Probibly a midori/webkit issue. 19:12:52 * skvidal opens it up on his phone 19:13:18 <pingou> I want to bother Ruth to ask her if/where we have a central place for general annoucement 19:13:32 <skvidal> pingou: how does that app work? 19:13:39 <pingou> like stuff about flock should arrive there 19:13:43 <pingou> skvidal: html and js 19:13:55 <skvidal> pingou: no - I mean - how is it populated? 19:14:04 <skvidal> is that the job you were asking about running somewhee? 19:14:07 <skvidal> err somewhere? 19:14:13 <pingou> http://ambre.pingoured.fr/fedora-news/js/fedora_apps.js this is pretty much the whole app 19:14:37 <skvidal> oh - so it's all happening client-side? 19:14:41 <pingou> skvidal: nope, that job is to send email on the devel list about package ownership change 19:14:45 <pingou> skvidal: yes 19:14:51 <skvidal> pingou: oh that is very attractive 19:14:53 <pingou> nirik: still loading? 19:14:55 <skvidal> pingou: well done 19:15:06 <skvidal> nirik: it's working here in chrome -lemme check ff 19:15:07 <nirik> pingou: yeah, something isn't happy on the midori side. We can debug out of meeting. 19:15:11 <nirik> works in firefox ok 19:15:15 <pingou> skvidal: how does it look on your phone? 19:15:31 <pingou> nirik: ok, sure :) 19:15:38 <skvidal> pingou: looks good 19:15:42 <skvidal> it asks me to 'install' on firefox 19:15:44 <skvidal> which is amusing 19:15:45 <nirik> very nice. will poke around at it more. ;) Thanks pingou 19:16:02 <pingou> skvidal: it's an app, you can install it 19:16:16 <threebean> pingou: put it on github. I want to send PRs ;p 19:16:26 <pingou> threebean: will do :) 19:16:40 <pingou> infra or pypingou? 19:16:46 * threebean suggests infra 19:17:29 <nirik> works fine in ff on my phone too. 19:17:40 <swa_work> yah, nice 19:17:49 <pingou> infra it is then 19:18:31 <nirik> I could see this also being nice for things like flock schedule/info or whatever too. 19:19:09 <nirik> ok, any further apps news? 19:19:11 <pingou> Having a flock app for the schedule would be nice for sure 19:19:18 <pingou> shouldn't be too hard to do either 19:19:40 <nirik> yeah, much nicer to look on your phone than pull out a laptop, or try and read a wiki page in the mobile browser. 19:20:10 <pingou> threebean: https://github.com/fedora-infra/fedora-news 19:20:22 <nirik> with hyperkitty we could also do lists back and forth, which would be very nice. 19:20:45 <pingou> I have to ask spot if I can use the Fedora logo as icon when installing the app 19:20:54 <pingou> (which I already do but... :) 19:21:02 <skvidal> pingou: https://plus.google.com/117445388364195221637/posts/BDitX5aJ5r9 19:21:12 <pingou> skvidal: <3 19:21:17 <skvidal> that's how it looks on my phone :) 19:21:27 <skvidal> took me a minute to remember how to take a screen shot on the n4 :) 19:21:39 <pingou> skvidal: that's how is supposed to look :) (and does completely on my peak because of a bug ^^) 19:21:40 <threebean> pingou: awesome 19:22:03 <skvidal> spot: you around? 19:22:09 <spot> yes 19:22:13 <skvidal> spot: if so - you should take a look at this thing pingou did 19:22:17 <skvidal> it's kinda pretty 19:22:19 <pingou> so know I can say I didn't get that phone for nothing ^^ 19:22:50 <spot> is this an app for the store, or a web app? 19:22:55 <skvidal> pingou: is there any way to make it fill the space with the little boxes width-wise? 19:23:00 <pingou> spot: and I have to you if I can use the logo :) 19:23:37 <pingou> spot: html5 we can distribute them outside any store 19:23:59 <pingou> and I don't really know if they can be included in the android store 19:24:03 <nirik> so we could publish this in infra for people to just run/install right? 19:24:10 <threebean> apps.fp.o/news 19:24:11 <pingou> nirik: yes 19:24:14 <nirik> (well, when it's all ready, etc) 19:24:15 * spot would feel a tiny bit better about using the logo if it lived on our server 19:24:24 <spot> but sure, you can use it either way 19:24:36 <pingou> spot: I can bother Ryan or Mó for a logo otherwise :) 19:24:42 <skvidal> nirik: afaict there's not much for them to 'run' 19:24:48 <nirik> true. 19:24:56 <skvidal> nirik: if by run you mean 19:24:59 <skvidal> 'download a web page' 19:25:05 <skvidal> :) 19:25:15 <pingou> skvidal: to answer your question yes but I need to find a way to increase these logos, atm it's not looking that nice :/ 19:25:30 <skvidal> pingou: I just opened it on the n7 - that's why I asked 19:25:43 <pingou> skvidal: n7 == tablet? 19:25:49 <nirik> skvidal: well, yeah, or download an 'app' which I guess means "shortcut to your browser running this page" right? 19:26:35 <skvidal> nirik: yes 'app' 19:26:37 <nirik> so, lets explore how we want to do this and what we want to add, etc out of meeting? 19:26:39 <skvidal> pingou: nexus 7 - yes 19:26:52 <nirik> but pretty slick. Kudos pingou 19:27:18 <pingou> thanks :] and thank threebean and ianweller for datagrepper :) 19:27:45 <skvidal> pingou: https://plus.google.com/117445388364195221637/posts/jEGruPjRWoz 19:28:02 <pingou> skvidal: does look less nice :) 19:28:23 <nirik> #topic Sysadmin status / discussion 19:28:24 <threebean> :) 19:28:46 <nirik> so, on sysadmin side... we have a kernel update pending, we did emerg reboots of some of our critical systems. 19:28:57 <nirik> we should probibly just do all of stg soon too. 19:29:01 <nirik> and the rest after the freeze 19:29:15 <skvidal> nirik: a couple of other updates trickled in between the last update and the kernel emergency 19:29:30 <skvidal> like a new nagios/nagios-common from epel 19:29:39 <skvidal> which fills me with dread about upgrading during a freeze 19:29:43 <nirik> #info kernel security update out, rebooted some ciritical machines, will do the rest after freeze. 19:29:50 <nirik> yeah, agreed. 19:29:53 <skvidal> so I'm likely to ONLY update the kernels rather than a global update 19:30:04 <nirik> I'm fine to hold off until after freeze for anything else. 19:30:07 <skvidal> ok 19:30:16 <abadger1999> Is our policy for cloud boxes and critical updates still "owner of instance is responsible"? 19:30:18 <nirik> but we could do *stg* 19:30:37 <skvidal> nod 19:30:39 <nirik> abadger1999: yeah, currently. we could force terminate everything and redeploy it I guess. 19:30:50 <skvidal> nirik: except for a handful of boxes 19:30:57 <skvidal> nirik: we could force everyone apply this update :) 19:31:08 <skvidal> b/c we have access to all the rest afaik 19:31:51 <nirik> yeah, since this is local only, I am not too worried. we do want to do it sometime... 19:32:03 <skvidal> cool 19:32:28 <nirik> #info new storage is coming on line soon, working on getting that working. 19:32:54 <nirik> #info ansible web quickstart next week for anyone interested in ansible 19:32:58 * nirik digs up link. 19:33:15 <nirik> http://www.ansibleworks.com/quickstart/ 19:33:40 <skvidal> it's on the 22nd iirc 19:33:55 <nirik> yeah. 19:34:10 <nirik> Any other sysadmin type items? 19:34:12 <Apsu`> Interesting. You guys are using (or going to use) Ansible? 19:34:20 <nirik> Apsu`: we are moving to it yeah. 19:34:20 <skvidal> we are using it now 19:34:25 <skvidal> and we are moving toward it more 19:34:34 <Apsu`> Fun. Decided against chef/puppet? 19:34:34 <skvidal> Apsu`: our repos are public 19:34:48 <skvidal> http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/cgit/ansible.git/tree/ 19:34:53 <Apsu`> Cool 19:34:55 <nirik> skvidal / smooge: did you get that kernel box all ansibled yesterday? happy to help further on that... 19:35:22 <skvidal> nirik: I setup a stub group playbook for smooge to work with 19:35:32 <skvidal> nirik: but the short answer is 'mostly' 19:35:37 <nirik> I think we should/could look next at adding in the virthost-comm0*.qa boxes... they should be pretty simple. 19:35:44 <skvidal> I think it needs fas-client added to it 19:36:00 <nirik> I had a fas_client task already setup... but yeah. 19:36:10 <skvidal> nirik: I also had to clean up some of the el6-ish assumptions in our base tasklist :) 19:36:17 <nirik> yeah, good. 19:36:59 <nirik> #topic Private Cloud status update / discussion 19:37:00 <skvidal> made some notes on where it needs to break out 19:37:02 <nirik> anything on clouds? 19:37:12 <nirik> skvidal: cool. I am sure we will need to adjust things as we go some. 19:37:20 <skvidal> not much has changed - the internal discussion over networking is still 'meh' 19:37:29 <smooge> cool 19:37:32 * nirik has not had time to do much on clouds this last week. 19:37:38 <skvidal> nirik: essentially it is this 19:37:40 <nirik> I still do plan to setup grizzley on the other ones. 19:37:57 <smooge> I need help with the next steps 19:38:01 <skvidal> nova on folsom and instances tlaking to each others public ips 19:38:02 <skvidal> are bleah 19:38:09 <skvidal> not likely to improve much 19:38:10 <Apsu`> Btw, I this is specifically what I do for a living. 19:38:20 <Apsu`> Rackspace private cloud team, working on openstack. :) 19:38:35 <nirik> ah ha. ;) 19:38:36 <Apsu`> Worth discussing the issues you're referring to here? 19:38:41 <skvidal> Apsu`: lovely - then maybe you can explain why using public ips - nodes can't talk to each other? 19:38:46 <nirik> sure, happy to. :) 19:38:55 <skvidal> Apsu`: I'll be happy to discuss in copious and painful detail :) 19:39:07 <Apsu`> Probably! 19:39:08 <nirik> yeah, perhaps in #fedora-noc after the meeting? 19:39:12 <Apsu`> Sure. 19:39:24 <nirik> thanks. 19:39:30 <nirik> #topic Upcoming Tasks/Items 19:39:54 <nirik> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/list/infrastructure/ 19:39:56 <nirik> :) 19:40:00 <nirik> I need to add some more stuff there. 19:40:20 <pingou> this is shorter than I remembered :) 19:40:21 <nirik> the bugzilla upgrade has moved to the 19th 19:40:35 <nirik> yeah 19:40:49 <nirik> here's the info dump: 19:40:51 <nirik> #info 2013-05-14 to 2013-05-28 BETA infrastructure freeze 19:40:52 <nirik> #info 2013-05-19 - bugzilla upgrade. 19:40:52 <nirik> #info 2013-05-28 F19 beta release 19:40:52 <nirik> #info 2013-05-31 end of 1st quarter 19:40:52 <nirik> #info 2013-06-01 nag fi-apprentices 19:40:53 <nirik> #info 2013-06-08 drop inactive apprentices 19:40:54 <nirik> #info 2013-06-18 to 2013-07-02 FINAL infrastructure freeze. 19:40:56 <nirik> #info 2013-07-01 nag fi-apprentices 19:40:58 <nirik> #info 2013-07-02 F19 FINAL release 19:41:00 <nirik> I'll add those all into the calendar moving forward. 19:41:06 <nirik> anything anyone wants to note or schedule? 19:41:49 <nirik> #topic Flock 19:42:01 <nirik> any further thoughts on flock? I submitted 2 things... 19:42:05 <nirik> I know other folks have as well. 19:42:45 <spot> MOAR THINGS. SUBMIT ALL THE THINGS! 19:42:50 <spot> sorry. 19:42:59 <nirik> http://flock-lmacken.rhcloud.com/proposals 19:43:05 <nirik> :) 19:43:17 <nirik> wow. we hit 50. nice. 19:43:18 <pingou> spot: there will be a selection in the submition right? 19:43:37 <skvidal> pingou: I think the plan is for all the talks to be given all at once and whomever is loudest wins 19:43:38 <spot> pingou: yes, there will be a selection committee to review all proposals 19:43:52 <pingou> skvidal: awesome :) 19:44:03 <pingou> spot: cool, so I can add more ideas as they come :) 19:44:03 <skvidal> spot: any news on the hotel? 19:44:23 <spot> skvidal: not yet, Ruth is traveling right now, and she's handling that 19:44:36 <pingou> (flights prices haven't changed since last time :() 19:45:13 <skvidal> spot: thx. 19:45:17 <nirik> #info everyone do submit talks / hackfests / sprints / workshops 19:46:10 <nirik> skvidal: at least you don't have to do a ansible talk, since there's already one. ;) 19:46:24 <skvidal> that's mdehaan 19:46:29 <nirik> yep. 19:46:42 <nirik> #topic Open Floor 19:46:53 <nirik> any items for open floor? comments? suggestions? 19:47:04 <pingou> we have to check what we do with jenkins 19:47:13 <skvidal> pingou: ? 19:47:18 <pingou> skvidal: login is broken 19:47:33 <skvidal> what happened? 19:47:35 <nirik> oh yeah, we have a fix ready... 19:47:42 <pingou> puiterwijk have a solution but it consists on unpacking a jar, replacing some of the libraries and repacking it 19:47:44 <nirik> just need to work with puiterwijk to get it in ansible 19:47:53 <skvidal> oh 19:47:56 <nirik> yeah, that. 19:47:57 <Apsu`> Ugh. Jenkins woes. 19:47:58 <skvidal> puiterwijk: just yell at me 19:48:06 <skvidal> I can make all those things show up 19:48:09 <Apsu`> Can has travis? Or... anything else really? :P 19:48:27 <pingou> Apsu`: it does the job 19:48:46 <Apsu`> When it decides to not fail horribly, sure. 19:48:47 <puiterwijk> pingou: no, not unpacking 19:48:56 <puiterwijk> just putting them in place 19:49:10 <puiterwijk> skvidal: sure, will contact you after the meeting on that 19:49:17 <skvidal> puiterwijk: okay 19:49:28 <puiterwijk> though I though nirik said he'd handle it last time, but let's do that togethetr 19:49:59 * nirik thought he was going to help you get it into ansible, but didn't have time right then. ;) 19:50:05 <nirik> anyhow, we can get it done. 19:50:30 <puiterwijk> ah no, I remember. you wanted to ask pingou on it 19:50:38 <nirik> could be yeah... ;) 19:50:49 <puiterwijk> let's talk about this after the meeting :) 19:50:52 <nirik> ok, if nothing else will close out in a minute... 19:51:40 <threebean> one thing 19:51:46 <nirik> sure, shoot. 19:51:49 <threebean> relrod asked about adding fedmsg messages to fpaste. 19:52:01 <threebean> should we do it? 19:52:29 <nirik> hum. 19:52:42 <nirik> so, by default pastes are marked 'private' so you have to know the url... 19:52:56 <nirik> the reason we did that was to prevent people from just scraping them all for sensitive info... 19:52:59 * abadger1999 thinks no for private pastes 19:53:06 * threebean agrees with abadger1999 19:53:22 <nirik> no we shouldn't do private pastes? or no we shouldn't do fedmsg? 19:53:40 <abadger1999> no we shouldn't fedmsg enable private pastes. 19:53:51 <abadger1999> Not sure about public pastes 19:53:52 <nirik> yeah. 19:54:08 <nirik> well, public ones already have a rss feed, so fedmsg should be fine. but not sure how much use it would be. 19:54:15 <abadger1999> right 19:54:30 <threebean> yeah. perhaps statistics. maybe relrod has another usecase in mind. 19:54:32 <abadger1999> threebean: do you have a nidea of how you'd summarize the paste? 19:54:43 <threebean> no clue yet 19:55:02 <abadger1999> b/c "Oh look, another /usr/bin/python -tt paste" is probably not that helpful :-) 19:55:05 <threebean> relrod: volunteered to write the patch and all too.. but we decided to bring it to the rest of the team before proceeding. 19:55:18 <nirik> yeah, I would say not to bother unless we have a better use case. 19:55:48 <threebean> I'll link to these meeting notes in the ticket we have for it so we can refer back to it later. thanks! 19:55:53 <nirik> but we can discuss more and see? sure. 19:55:54 <nirik> thanks. 19:56:17 <nirik> thanks for coming everyone! 19:56:21 <nirik> #endmeeting
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