On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 11:58, Draciron Smith <draciron@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora > Go down to support options. Under forum it links you to fedoraforum.org. It > has for years now. I think I first joined Fedoraforums.org back when FC4 or > FC5 was out. I see that, but I don't think it is shown as being THE place for users to go. On the other hand I don't think that is really the point of your emails. You are unhappy with the direction with Fedora and I can understand and sympathize. In the end, I want people to find what makes them happy, and if Fedora is not doing it.. please do go find someplace that will do so. I have no plan to kick people off the list for opinions I think we have all had at one time or another. I won't say this is the best avenue for getting anything done with it.. but I understand. Good luck with your next OS. > Y'all are welcome to kick me off the list. I'll be leaving it anyway at the > end of this thread because I no longer use Fedora, thus no real incentive to > contribute any more. I'm no longer active on the Fedoraforum.org website not > that I was an especially active contributor there. The staff there are quite > knowledgeable and very active so most of the time they answered a question > long before I saw it. Y'all really should lend more support to that website > by actually visiting it and seeing what real life users of your project are > experiencing/asking/happy & upset about. > > > On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Stephen John Smoogen <smooge@xxxxxxxxx> > wrote: >> >> On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 00:51, Draciron Smith <draciron@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> > 1. Fedora users feel like they have NO mechanism for feedback. >> > >> > The mailing lists are a maze and designed for contributors not for mere >> > users. >> > >> > The prescribed mechanism on the Fedora website is >> > http://fedoraforum.org/ >> >> Well maybe we need to change that. Fedora Forum is run by an outside >> organization of volunteers. >> >> > This website is clearly avoided like the plague by all contributors. If >> > ANYBODY who had any say in the Fedora project visited things like the >> > VERY >> > VERY VERY unpopular changes to the GDM would be instantly reversed. In >> > fact >> > many like myself for the first time no longer have Fedora running on any >> > of >> > my machines for the first time since Fedora came into existence. Since >> > about >> > 97 I've had at least 1 machine usually most or all running Redhat and >> > later >> > Fedora. It's been my main distro for years. The GDM issue was the last >> > straw. Feedback on fedora forums on all the Linux forums I've visited >> > has >> > been extremely negative and I've seen quite a few people do the same >> > thing I >> > have and switch to another distro. >> >> That is the way of things. New people come in and old people leave. It >> is not an infrastructure item to deal with it other than make those >> transitions as easy as possible. >> >> > 2. Why does the Fedora project TELL people to go to a forum to give >> > feedback >> >> Link please. I don't see where it is told that feedback is to be given >> there.. just that one can best find help there. Two different things. >> >> > then never visit the place much less listen to feedback offered? It is >> > clearly stated at the Fedora forums that contributors never visit there >> > because so many arrive on their shores with the false hope of actually >> > giving feedback. >> > >> > >> > >> > 2011/3/2 "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" <johannbg@xxxxxxxxx> >> >> >> >> As Brian mentioned in [1],[2] as in the CWG wanted to get a >> >> constructive >> >> feedback on COC and COCE proposed drafts from the whole community on >> >> the >> >> FAB list highlights one issue that the project is facing as in we don't >> >> have a good way of gathering community feedback on topics. >> >> >> >> This issue is probably know but for some reason not being worked upon? >> >> ( Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong ) >> >> >> >> Anyway to point out the obvious encase nobody was aware of this issue. >> >> ( we have been without one for now about 15 release cycles so something >> >> is amiss ) >> >> >> >> He posts the proposed drafts to a single mailing list which.. >> >> >> >> a) >> >> Has a limited number of users subscribed to it >> >> >> >> b) >> >> Requires all members of the community to be subscribed to that >> >> particular list. >> >> >> >> c) >> >> Mailing list provide the ability to see and reply to others people feed >> >> back resulting in so called *noise* as in people reassuring their >> >> feedback encase the message/meaning did get through and etc.. rather >> >> then constructive discussion. >> >> >> >> That results in an end result that is far from being effective and >> >> reaching the whole community. >> >> >> >> Coming up with a rough solution to gather the feedback is a no brainer >> >> >> >> First we need a common dominator that applies to all community members >> >> and that one is obvious FAS account. >> >> >> >> Next we need a web server with a DB backend, hooked up to FAS with an >> >> simple web page that the community member logs into that displays to >> >> him >> >> what he needs to provide his feedback and two text boxes one for the >> >> feedback and another one for any question he might have with regards to >> >> the proposal/draft itself. >> >> >> >> With the above in place all that is needed is to request the feedback >> >> via our public channels like a mail to the announce or something >> >> similar. >> >> >> >> Now the tricky part is coming up with a simple yet scalable to the >> >> total >> >> number of community members solution, to work through all that feedback >> >> I got couple of ideas up my sleeves for that but instead of reinventing >> >> the wheel I propose that existing survey tools like [1],[2] be looked >> >> at >> >> first to see how they have solved the problem we are facing. >> >> >> >> JBG >> >> >> >> 1. >> >> >> >> >> >> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-March/010525.html >> >> 2. >> >> >> >> >> >> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-March/010526.html >> >> 3. http://www.limesurvey.org/ >> >> 4. http://www.doodle.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> infrastructure mailing list >> >> infrastructure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > infrastructure mailing list >> > infrastructure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Stephen J Smoogen. >> "The core skill of innovators is error recovery, not failure avoidance." >> Randy Nelson, President of Pixar University. >> "Let us be kind, one to another, for most of us are fighting a hard >> battle." -- Ian MacLaren >> _______________________________________________ >> infrastructure mailing list >> infrastructure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure > > > _______________________________________________ > infrastructure mailing list > infrastructure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure > -- Stephen J Smoogen. "The core skill of innovators is error recovery, not failure avoidance." Randy Nelson, President of Pixar University. "Let us be kind, one to another, for most of us are fighting a hard battle." -- Ian MacLaren _______________________________________________ infrastructure mailing list infrastructure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
