On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 09:12 +0900, mpsuzuki@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: > >Arabic is like Japanese in that regard, no difference. I actually see > >that coming, should have clarified. By unexpected, I mean it's not the > >most likely event. Japanese text coming is more expected. > > > >That said, we don't have that in issue as much in Arabic because it's > >considered bad writing to start an Arabic/Persian paragraph with an > >English word written in Latin. It also screws bidirectional code in > >Pango and you end up with a left-to-right paragraph (because that's what > >it looks like from your text), so people just avoid it. > > I see. Hearing "people just avoid it" is quite interesting. As I said, it's not just technical. It's bad style to start a Persian/Arabic paragraph with a Latin word. > >But then when rendering a Japanese only text, all the punctuation marks > >will be rendered using a different font! Now imagine that in a > >monospace text, with bitmap Japanese font and non-bitmap punctuation > >font. > > Yes. Do you think it's worse than contextual font switching? I think rendering single-script text correctly is more important, yes. If you have plain text in one script, it should only use the preferred font of that script. Can't compromise here. > I don't think so. But it's because my fonts have varied/inconsistent > baselines and heights (and their inconsistency makes the contextual > font switching quite ugly), so my disagree is not so strong at present. > > Anyway, your mention on bidi reminded me that binding a fixed font > to COMMON characters may confuse bidi glyph shaping of punctuation. > If so, it would be problematic and binding should be disabled even > if it's possible. Oops. No, bidi reordering is done independent of font selection. Those are completely separate processes. > >> >I have two suggestions for what you can do that may achieve better > >> >results for you. > >> > > >> > - Run under LC_LANG=en_US LC_MESSAGES=ja_JA > >> > > >> > - Choose a non-generic font family in gedit. That is, something other > >> >than Sans, Sans-serif, and Monospace. > >> > >> Oops, it's too application specific... > > > >No. Give it a try. It should have the effect you asked for. All > >punctuation should be chosen from the non-generic font you choose. I > >said do it in gedit just to test, otherwise it's nothing specific to > >gedit, that's how fontconfig works. > > OK, I will try to setup ~/.fonts.conf. I don't think that would do it. Just set it in gnome-font-properties. > It seems that my > request (binding a same font to COMMON character, at > least in Latin & CJK context) can be realized by it Not exactly. Hardcoding a font in your fontconfig config to always return a certain font as the first font is not a good idea, and is actually what started this thread at the beginning. > - so it's off-topic to this list? Should I move to fontconfig? I don't think forcing to use the same font for COMMON characters is really a solution. The simplest solution for the case you showed is to use a font that has both Japanese and Latin glyphs (plus all the punctuation). Again, what started this thread was that the CJK font had Latin glyphs, but crappy ones. > Anyway, thank you for enlightening me. > > Regards, > mpsuzuki -- behdad http://behdad.org/ ...very few phenomena can pull someone out of Deep Hack Mode, with two noted exceptions: being struck by lightning, or worse, your *computer* being struck by lightning. -- Matt Welsh _______________________________________________ Fedora-fonts-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list
