hi
I respect your philosophy of structuring the style propagations
based on the context and script natures. I think it is indeed an elegant
solution to use a COMMON charset to represent the language-independent
symbols and render them based on the context.
IMHO, the confusion comes from the fact that "language-neutrality"
and "local-language dependent" are not distinguished for the COMMON
scripts.
In another word, the charset of COMMON is a mixture of the characters
that are essentially not tied to any specific language (such as digits),
and those are re-defined by local languages (such as some punctuations,
geometric shapes U2500-U25FF). For the former case, I think they
should not be influenced by local language preferences, rather,
using system fall-back setup (likely Latin-preferred) should be the
best solution; for the later case, using local font preference is
the best, as in your current COMMON charset handling.
In short, I think the current COMMON set should be further
refined into a NEUTRAL and a LOCAL_DEPENDENT char sets,
and use system fall-back configuation for NEUTRAL set, and
use local-language preferences for the LOCAL_DEPENDENT set.
Specifically, for digits, they are language neutral and should
be rendered by system fall-back settings rather than a local
language settings.
Qianqian
Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 21:58 -0500, Qianqian Fang wrote:
hi Behdad
Hi,
you may well be right and the behavior of pango is not logically
flawed. Perhaps this problem should be filed as a feature-request
rather than a bug.
I'm not stuck at semantic issues like feature-request vs bug. When I
say it's technically infeasible, I mean it.
From Chinese user perspective, Latin scripts and the Common
scripts are both non-Hanzi or non-CJK characters, therefore,
they are expecting a similar look-n-feel when rendering these characters.
For other languages, I guess they more or less share the same
view: numbers and basic Latin characters (or Basic ASCII, or
keyboard characters) are the most frequently used, non-local-language
dependent symbols. As long as their local language does not
re-define these symbols, they are expected to be rendered with
similar styles.
Let me repeat what's happening again: You are setting a Chinese locale,
so when Pango see digits, it assumes that you want to use those digits
with Chinese text, and you have provided a Chinese font that has glyphs
for those digits, so it believes it's found the perfect font for them
(your preferred font indeed) and uses it. If those digits are not
desired, remove them from the font.
I don't know the exact definition of PANGO_SCRIPT_COMMON
and PANGO_SCRIPT_LATIN, but I think it is more natural to
render the numbers using a Latin font rather than a Chinese
font, as numbers and Latins are much closer.
Then fix your font.
Huang Peng provided a patch to get the commonly expected
behavior for this situation, if it can be implemented, or
under the condition of Chinese locales, that would be a great
help. I've seen this report many times on Mandriva, Debian,
Redhat's bugzilla and almost all Chinese Linux forums.
That's not going to happen. Pango's core has nothing language or script
specific hardcoded in it except for the data that is computer-generated
from the Unicode Character Database. In Unicode, ASCII digits are
marked script Common. There is a very small part of the issue you are
seeing that can be improved in Pango:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=345386
but other than that, the behavior looks very reasonable to me. If you
can think of an explanation of the behavior you want, without using
"change character class of digits" and "special-case Chinese", I'm
interested to hear that.
There are a few ways to fix your problem:
- Remove Latin and ASCII digits from your font. Why is it there if
it's not desired? Nicolas suggested that fontconfig adds support for
conditional blacklisting of individual blocks/glyphs in a font. That
would help too, but it's not in fontconfig yet.
- If you were doing your font in an OpenType container, you could
split Latin and Chinese parts into two different fonts stuffed into a
single container and having the same name. Then Pango will not see your
Chinese font having ASCII digits and not use them.
But at the end, it all comes down to real or hacky ways of removing
those glyphs from the font.
Back to the original topic of this thread, how do you think the
fontconfig file in my last email? I have heard complains at
some Chinese forums about font changes due to removing
the original fontconfig file. Hope I can get something to
commit to cease their complains.
No idea.
Qianqian
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