Hi Gerold, My apologies for the top post, but I believe it might be better to address things this way rather than point by point. First, thank you for taking the time to express your frustrations. I can assure you that the Council is frustrated as well. The EMEA ambassadors and their handling of the budget was one of the few bright spots in our budget review from a couple weeks ago, and we wish to see that continue. I personally think EMEA is the exemplary ambassador region that others should look to for guidance and advice on a number of things. However, this particular FAD request was somewhat unusual. As you've said, the short notice and pay-up-front nature of the request were odd, combined with the fact that the people we usually see organizing it are entirely absent. We love having new contributors do work so the last point isn't really an issue on its own, but when taken as a whole it seemed odd. We know that reimbursement is a pain. This is not limited to community members either. As a Red Hat employee, all of my travel is paid for out-of-pocket and reimbursed after the fact. I am fully aware of the difficulties this can cause, however it is the way accounting works here and advance payment is very difficult to accomplish. Even the community credit cards are technically reimbursement that is paid after the fact. I don't see this changing, so as we prepare requests in the future we need to keep this in mind. As to our tone around the social event, please forgive me if I was perceived as harsh and uncaring. I realize that such meetings can be draining and doing something away from the computer or meeting can be a needed and welcome break. My intention was not to eliminate it entirely at all. However, the Council has received a larger number of budget requests this year which is causing us to review each more carefully. As Matt said, we want to make sure the money being spent can immediately be shown to have a positive impact on the project. To put it bluntly, the number of social events and the amount for them seemed excessive for a FAD. That and the lack of any real information around them was where we had trouble finding that portion of the request reasonable. As the Council is trying to more fully understand the overall budget picture, we did not find it reasonable to approve the request without at least asking some questions. Ultimately I believe it was as Stephen suggested and the short notice and upfront request were the deal breakers for approval. This is unfortunate and I truly hope that the EMEA ambassadors can come back with another proposal so that we can continue to have strong leadership and financial responsibility in that region. Thank you again for your efforts and time. josh On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 2:43 AM, Gerold <gerold@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> On 27 October 2015 at 13:39, Gerold <gerold@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> Hello Everybody, >>> >>> to be honest, since years this FAD brought Red Hat the numbers from EMEA >>> which they have to spend as budget for the next fiscal year, as well as >>> an >>> outcome was, that we decided what are the strategic plans in SWAG, in >>> Media >>> production, which event will be covered, wher ewe need to improve our >>> presence, what to do next to bring the community in front and so on and >>> so >>> on ... >>> For me, this discussion looks like a finger pointing: "... Look they >>> burn >>> the money to have a funny weekend on our costs ..." >>> They want to get money for a location, for food and a social event which >>> is, >>> sorry WAS planned a lazergame. The former FADs in Rheinfelden, which I >>> organised so far were amout the same amount of money and we also had >>> every >>> year a social event which brings us away from the computer for a few >>> hours >>> ... >>> We covered in that event more than 10 nations in EMEA, brought together >>> all >>> important "Country" LEader and had a hard weekend. >>> Most of us payed travel by their own, spending a whole weekend without >>> family, children and friends. I´d also like to say that on the most >>> FAD´s in >>> Rheinfelden, a FPL showed up or some VIPs from Red Hat with a credit >>> card >>> because they knew about the importance to get correct and planable >>> numbers >>> from EMEA. >>> For this year, it can be skipped and the budget numbers which we in EMEA >>> gave every year since I was part of it, can be imagined by the stars. >>> I´m >>> really sorry about that point of viewing and I´m also more than just >>> disappointed by the short view of some individuals. >>> >> >> In the past did you ask for the money to be paid in advance? What was >> your general lead time for setting this up? 30 days, 60 days, 90 days? >> If the answer is yes that the money needed to be paid in advance to >> the hotel and other places and that the general setup time to get the >> money to the hotel and events was short then yes this was a failure on >> people's part to understand how things are done. And if it is a >> failure then it needs to be better documented because the short notice >> and being paid in advance are the parts that are causing people >> consternation.. the lazer tag is a red herring (Ablenkungsmanöver?) It >> is the part that a couple of people brought up but the real issue was >> >> 1) Short time to approve payments >> 2) Payment in advance when most events are paid afterwords. >> > Hello Stephen, > thanks for coming back with that questions and also a warm thank you, that > you tried to understand, what I wanted to point out and what I have > explained. > First, let me be a little unpolite and reply with questions, too. > Have you ever organized an event for 20 Persons from 20 different countries? > Do you have a full $DAYJOB, which is not to related to OpenSource who > binds you totally? > Are you able and willing to be the bank for the time you will be reimburst > from someone who maybe pay in half a year? > > And now some answers from mine to your questions: > I, by myself started always planing with that FAD in August (each year) > with the first quotes from the hotel and as well I checked everything > around like dinner, social event, etc. And YES, after I was blamed by the > hotel in the first year that they got their money not in time (they got it > 5 month after the event, directly then by credit card of Max Spevack), > they told me that they never host any event for me/us if they don't get > the amount in front. > If you have ever the need to get reimburst for the money you loan (because > it is nothing else, when I represent Fedora in the name of Red Hat), then > you'll know what I'm talking about. I personally waited also half a year > for my money I spend from my own pocket for an event. > I'm sorry, I have family and also monthly costs, which can't be shifted, > because I spend my money for a credit to the OpenSource; if you got that > point. > And so, maybe you also understand that I'm not willing to credit 20 > peoples bed and breakfast and a venue; because I haven't such an amount in > spare; do you? > Since reimbursement is such a pain, there was many years ago to give some > honored members of the Community a credit card; it works mostly as far as > I was aware of it. But in general it's hard to get the money back you > spent; at least in Europe. > For sure, transparency and the short notice will maybe make the FAD this > year failing, but I dislike the taste of which it was cancled and the mind > which was around in council with the request. > Thanks for your time > > Gerold _______________________________________________ council-discuss mailing list council-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/council-discuss The Fedora Project's mission is to lead the advancement of free and open source software and content as a collaborative community.
