+1 to all that John has said. I struggled similarly with each and every point he makes. John, would you be so kind as to include all of this on the wiki talk page as well? I think it's worth having a record there as a central point. Thanks, Clint On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 11:08 AM, inode0 <inode0@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > I'm back again and while I tried asking questions and giving feedback > to the earlier draft on the legal list none of my questions were > answered there so this time I'll just give my feedback to the Board > knowing that legal reads this list as well and can take them or leave > them as they deem appropriate. If the Board shares any of my concerns > perhaps they are better situated to work with legal to resolve them. > > The current draft for reference is located here > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Pchestek/TMGuidelinesDraft#Non-Software_Promotional_Goods > > My first concern which still remains in this draft is singling out > Fedora Ambassadors when they are not the only contributors who have > done this work. So the way this reads now is if you are a Fedora > Ambassador this long section with 3 external links applies to you and > if you are doing exactly the same thing but you are not a Fedora > Ambassador it seems you just ask the Board for permission (which > frankly seems to be the path of far less resistance to me). Please > generalize these guidelines so that they apply equally to everyone > producing merchandise for use at Fedora events. > > Bullet point #2 quoted here for reference: > > * The Goods must be of a Pre-Approved Type (currently that is shirt, > sweatshirt, hat, sticker, temporary tattoo, button, balloon, banner, > poster, cup, or pen/pencil). Items printed on "normal" sized paper are > not considered Non-Software Promotional Goods in this context, and are > acceptable as long as any Trademark and/or Logo use is in compliance > with the Fedora Trademark and/or Logo Guidelines. > > This is an interesting list of pre-approved types. Some of these items > have previously been produced, others haven't in my memory. Other > items that have been previously produced are not included on this > list. What qualifies types to be pre-approved, specifically for items > that we have been producing for years? Does "sticker" mean any sort of > sticker or only some particular stickers? Can this list be generalized > at all to include common types that are produced by Red Hat itself and > other corporations for professional events so we don't need have some > process to go through to make a frisbee or a can koozie? > > With any list, no matter how we tweak it today, the existence of this > list means we will all be less likely to produce anything not already > on it because that will involve extra work. So my bigger concern here > is why the contributors who have been picking these types without > embarrassing Red Hat or the Fedora Project for years are now not > trusted to continue doing so? > > Bullet point #3 quoted here for reference: > > * The Goods must use a Fedora Approved Design (as found on the Fedora > Approved Designs page) <LINK>. Fedora Approved Designs are designs > which have been reviewed by Fedora Legal for compliance with the > Fedora Logo Guidelines. > > This hides the process behind a missing link making it impossible to > give any feedback regarding whether or to what extent this process > will be a burden. I can ask one question about it though. Why are only > designs used on Fedora Ambassador produced goods subject to this > requirement for a Fedora Legal compliance check? > > Bullet point #4 quoted here for reference: > > * The Goods must be produced by a Vendor who is listed as a "Good > Vendor" on the "Fedora Non-Software Vendors" wiki page <LINK>. Vendors > marked as "Bad Vendors" must not be used. New Vendors must be added by > the Ambassador to the "Good Vendor" list, and can be then be > immediately used. Ambassadors are expected to move Vendors into the > "Bad Vendor" list if/when they receive poor quality goods or have > extreme difficulties dealing with the Vendor. > > This is a deal breaker for me. Red Hat claims no responsibility for > any content on the wiki and expects me to present a vendor in a > negative light on it? Vendors and really any business will get cranky > about things like this and who will they take it up with if they are > cranky enough to bother with it? Red Hat isn't responsible for this > content so who is? Me? No thanks. > > The final sentence of this section says "If a Fedora Ambassador wishes > to produce Non-Software Promotion Goods of a New Type or a New Design, > they must first receive approval for the New Type or Design from > Fedora Legal. For details on how to request approval, see <LINK>." > > Again a missing link where all the details will be revealed. In the > first draft there was a lot of information about tracking and record > keeping using a trac instance. There is none in this draft currently > but will all of that resurface in the details on this <LINK>? > > While I think this entire process is antagonistic toward contributors > who have been helping Fedora present itself in a good light for many > years I don't know how we are really supposed to give feedback when > there isn't full transparency about our obligations under these new > guidelines. > > My feathers are admittedly ruffled because I find it absurd that the > work that we have done for years is resulting in our being singled out > as a group that needs to be micro-managed by Fedora Legal. I'm sure > that isn't the perspective of Fedora Legal, at least I hope it isn't. > But I have not been given any reasonable justification for treating > Ambassadors this way and no one else. > > While I know Ambassadors would like to have all the missing details > revealed so they can really understand what they are going to be > required to do to comply with these guidelines, what is already > revealed is enough for me to respectfully ask the Board to not approve > them in their current form. The Good Vendor/Bad Vendor bit is enough > by itself to make me stop dead in my tracks. > > John > _______________________________________________ > advisory-board mailing list > advisory-board@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board _______________________________________________ advisory-board mailing list advisory-board@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board
