On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 01:14:38PM -0400, Paul Frields wrote: > On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Matt Domsch <matt@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 02:20:42PM -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: > >> On Wed, 21 Jul 2010, Mike McGrath wrote: > >> > >> > It's been pointed out to me that start.fedoraproject.org is in violation > >> > of Infrastructure's free software policy: > >> > > >> > http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/csi/free-software-policy/en-US/html-single/#FreeSoftware-Standard-Choosing > >> > > >> > In particular the "Proprietary Dependence" clause. Now, start.fp.o has > >> > existed long before the policy was put in place and a grandfather > >> > exception does exist.... but I thought I'd mention it. This could be an > >> > opportunity to completely re-think the start.fedoraproject.org home page. > >> > I know that upon its design there was some major things in the works but > >> > AFAIK most if not all of them fell through and that search engine link was > >> > all that was left. > >> > > >> > Thoughts, comments? > >> > > >> > >> Got this from jds2001 (Jon Stanley - Board Member, cardnals fan) who > >> requested that I forward it on: > > > > [snip] > >> In short, I don’t think that we can remove Google search without also > >> removing all other external dependencies from the infrastructure, which is > >> neither desirable nor practical. > > > > We can remove Google search from start.fp.o today if we want to, there > > is nothing stopping us from doing so. It doesn't have to be > > all-or-nothing, and we run plenty of equipment (say, network switches, > > load balancers, servers, storage arrays) that are not Free in any > > sense of the word. Our stance needs to be more than "if practical, > > use open source", but it need not be "we only use open source > > hardware, software, and services we can verify as being open source, > > non-malware, ...". I have no problem grandfathering in the services > > we have, and, as time, needs, and available effort permit, substitute > > them for open source services we run ourselves. But I'm not willing to > > shut down all of Fedora Infrastructure because we can't get the board > > layouts and firmware source for our servers and switches, and can't > > power the data centers on solar. There's ideals and goals, and there > > is cutting off our nose to spite our face. > > You've hit on something that concerns me, Matt. I worry that we're > looking for ways to eliminate some third party services without any > plan, manpower, or commitment to replacing them. I'm not saying we > don't want to do so; we want to build and run only free software on > our infrastructure. IOW, if we're building or running something on > Fedora infrastructure (think FAS, or pkgdb), the web application code > shouldn't be linked, in the compile/module sense, to some proprietary > code to work. > > Whacking things without any sign that we're going to provide, build, > or run in-house a replacement, though, seems premature even if we'd > like to get to that point eventually. I'm not thinking so much of the > start page itself here, but the specific example of the docs.fp.o site > with its search box that calls Google with sitesearch=docs.fp.o set. I > would say that function on the site isn't even essential, it's just > helpful for people who are going to use the site. Perhaps one of the > points of discussion needed is what constitutes "essential" function > and what's informational or an add-on utility. > > In any case, the language in the policy is fairly unclear about the > context for "linking" (web applications dynamically linking? or > providing a URL?). It needs to be revisited and better explained, so > I'd recommend that review become a Board action item -- not that it > has to be done in private meetings, but that the discussions be > tracked and resolved, and any changes documented in the policy, by a > specific date. > No. This is an Infrastructure issue. -Toshio
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