On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 06:38:07PM -0500, Máirín Duffy wrote: > On Sat, 2010-02-20 at 00:08 +0100, Christoph Wickert wrote: > > So why did nobody from the design team speak up when I filed the ticket? > > If you expect the ambassadors to communicate their request in a timely > > manner, then you should do the same. > > It doesn't work like that. *You* were the one asking for something, not > us. > > > > and generally stray away from the standard > > > template we have been using for three releases now. > > > > I am not a designer, I have no idea what templates or programs you use > > and nobody bothered to tell me. > > You certainly didn't bother to ask or RTFM on the wiki. > > > > Oh, and you didn't mention that you > > > wanted those changes to the standard format until we had already invested time and > > > effort into producing what you actually did ask for. > > > > Sorry, with due respect: Nobody had done anything, so who invested time? > > Tatica did as you already made reference to! > > > > Not only that! The sources to all the media labels we originally produced were available, > > > from November on, so there was no reason to wait until the night before you needed the labels to > > > start trying to work them out on your own! > > > > This just isn't true. as you correctly say the request was opened on > > 2009-12-19. The event we needed the media for was FOSDEM which started > > in 2010-02-06. > > You completely missed the point that media artwork was scheduled to > happen in November. I don't care when your event was. We have a set > point in the schedule where we produce all of the media artwork so it is > all consistent and ready well before release date. You missed that date > by a month. > > > > In conclusion, your posting that you site is in NO WAY evidence of a 'little or no support' for > > > spins. It's more evidence that: > > > > > > 1) the design team needs help and needs to be treated more like human beings rather than robots. > > > the time around a release is the most stressful and demanding time for us. > > > > > > 2) you need to be more explicit in what you are looking for when you make a request rather than > > > waste a designer's time putting something together for you, only for you to reject it because she > > > couldn't read your mind and you never clearly explained what you were asking for > > > > Tatica and me were in contact most of the time over IRC. She knew what I > > was after and she did a very good job. I only did some small corrections > > as outlined in the ticket. > > > > The reason to start all over again was that you told me that the SVGs > > created with inkscape wont work because they lack CMYK and we needed to > > start all over again with scribus. So if someone wasted Taticas time I > > don't think it was me. > > They don't. Had you brought them to the printers (if they would have > accepted them) they would have come out purple instead of blue. I'm very > sorry it wasn't realized in a timely fashion, but that's orthogonal to > the fact that your initial request was *NOT* upfront wrt what you > needed. > > > I'm not sure if this waste could be avoided, but as the ticket was > > assigned to you all the time and copies of all mails go over the > > design-team-tickets mailing list, I think you and others should have > > been aware of it. > > There is nobody actively monitoring the design-team-tickets mailing list > as far as I'm aware. What do you want me to do, reply to every ticket, > 'too busy, sorry?' If you don't get an answer, there's nobody to do it. > You have to find someone to do it. We have a mailing list advertised on > the front page of the ticket system as the place to ask. > > > > 4) realize any request you make of the design team that falls within calendar vicinity of a Fedora > > > release is not going to be high-priority because the team's highest-priority deliverables are > > > the release artwork. The plan outlining the release artwork happens months in advance and is aligned > > > to an extremely tight schedule. Since these labels were clearly not on that plan, they were treated > > > accordingly. > > > > First you say I was a month late, then you say I should not open a > > ticket close to release. If I opened the ticked at the beginning of > > November when the decision was taken, it would have been just before > > F12. Instead it was opened 2009-12-19 which means F12 was out the door > > for a month and there was no trace of an upcoming release. > > The schedule is determined, as I already told you, months in advance of > release. If you had filed the ticket in December and expected those > spins' media labels to be added to the F13 rotation, that would have > been far more reasonable. Having a schedule is the only way we've been > able to make sure stuff gets done, and even then things happen and we > have to leave tasks uncompleted. > > > > > One team you really need to refrain from picking on as an example of some > > > conspiratorial anti-spins agenda is the design team. We have never, ever turned down a > > > request on the basis of who made it or for what team within the project it was for, and > > > the spins.fpo site, especially the games spin site which was a huge effort > > > almost everyone on the team contributed to (we did over 100 designs, one for each of > > > the individual games in the spin), was a huge project we took on over top of > > > the usual release artwork deliverables we are responsible for. That was to > > > directly benefit the spins! > > > > I never said you turned down a turned down a request on the basis of who > > made it, but it is evident that the design team has other priorities > > than the spins. > > The design team has one priority that trumps every other, including the > spins - the release artwork. I just told you this, and it should be > blaringly obvious anyway. This is NOT a conspiracy against spins. If we > don't have artwork to ship, NONE of the spins have artwork so all > variants of Fedora are negatively impacted. It would be foolish to > produce media artwork for only one or two spins at the detriment of the > theme artwork for all. > > > How much time have you spent on gnome-shell recently? A few days? A > > week? But on the other hand there is nobody who has 2 or 3 hours to do > > the spins media? > > How dare you call into question what I work on. You have no right to > dictate what I work on or question what I do with my time. > > We have almost 200 open requests on our plate of which only the easiest > might take 2-3 hours to work on. Get in line. Also, just because > something doesn't take a long time to do doesn't mean it should be done > first. If we only took on the projects that took the least amount of > time, large more-involved projects like the fpo revamp would NEVER > happen. This subthread has gotten out of hand. Please everyone, cool off and stop adding fuel to a needless fire. No more replies here please. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ Where open source multiplies: http://opensource.com _______________________________________________ advisory-board mailing list advisory-board@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board
