On 2/7/07, Dave Jones <davej@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Wed, Feb 07, 2007 at 05:05:16PM +0100, Andreas Bierfert wrote: > To me the most important thing in fedora is user > experience and having modules for e.g. hardware available clearly is one of the > most basic and important things. I'm tired of hearing this 'user experience' as an excuse for this. What about the user experience when they hit a bug in the kernel, and can't upgrade to a fixed version because their module doesn't work on the new one? What about the user experience when they file bugs and the Fedora kernel team refuses to look at them unless the module is removed (which they don't want to do?) What about the user experience when equivalent functionality (but different/incompatible) is merged upstream ? What about the user experience when someone hoses their initrd, and their system doesn't boot any more? This part of the boot process is _really_ fragile, so some bogus module can break this unintentionally very easily. See the disaster from FC3 era when livna shipped a horked nvidia module. (That particular event cost me a lot of hours over ~2-3 months, chasing a bug that a) I couldn't fix and b) wasn't even caused by anything I did, so yes, I'm somewhat jaded by external modules)
Ok users are going to complain, not use, and rant about how bad Fedora is because: A) the kernel doesn't have the modules for their hardware and tells users to use get their favorite module pushed upstream. B) the kernel keeps breaking out-of-stream modules from other repos [since the only way to enforce a pure upstream kernel will be to drop all dkms/kmod/etc from the new combined core+extras repository] FAB gets to choose which one and let people know thats how its going to be from then on. People who do not like choice A or choice B can 1) Suck-it-up and fix the problems on non-fedora lists/groups that arise. 2) Find a distro that is better for their needs. 3) Continue to complain, but know that they are silently put into spam filters of core Fedora people.
improving "user experience" is not an excuse for doing this whilst people conveniently ignore the parts that *ruin* user experience for others. > If the modules are free in the fedora sense > why should we keep our users away from them? How about increased workload for the kernel team for one? I don't see anyone doing much to improve *my* user experience.
Welcome to customer support and working in a service industry :). -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" _______________________________________________ fedora-advisory-board mailing list fedora-advisory-board@xxxxxxxxxx http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-advisory-board _______________________________________________ fedora-advisory-board-readonly mailing list fedora-advisory-board-readonly@xxxxxxxxxx http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-advisory-board-readonly
