Re: Small rant: installer environment size

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On Fri, Dec 09, 2022 at 08:09:42AM +0000, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 08, 2022 at 12:54:16PM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > On Thu, 2022-12-08 at 20:43 +0100, drago01 wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 8, 2022, Chris Adams <linux@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Once upon a time, Daniel P. Berrangé <berrange@xxxxxxxxxx> said:
> > > > > On Thu, Dec 08, 2022 at 07:59:20PM +0100, drago01 wrote:
> > > > > > That would be very crazy, as you will have a degraded user experience
> > > > > > (laggy UI, wrong resolution, ...) to save a couple of megabytes that
> > > > are a
> > > > > > non issue for today's hardware.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Please bear in mind the difference between bare metal and virtual
> > > > > machines. The bare metal machine may have 32 GB of RAM, making a
> > > > > 800 MB install image a non-issue. For a public cloud virtual machine
> > > > > though, this could bump your VM sizing up 1 level from 2 GB quota
> > > > > to a 4 GB RAM quota, with correspondingly higher price point.
> > > > 
> > > > Also "today's hardware" increasingly includes small devices like
> > > > Raspberry Pi.  ARM devices don't typically use anaconda, but there are
> > > > also small x86 based devices competing with the small ARM devices.
> > > > 
> > > > I think the answer is "no", but I'll ask anyway: is there a way to evict
> > > > all the firmware once the system is started?  I'm guessing that as long
> > > > as it's all in one disk image, that's not possible.  Can we tack on a
> > > > second disk image with use-once (at most) stuff and then drop the whole
> > > > image after startup?
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Again there is no reason why everything on the disk image had to be loaded
> > > into memory in the first place. Same way when you boot your installed
> > > system, not everything on disk is loaded into memory. If you don't need the
> > > firmware, it should stay on the install media and never be loaded into
> > > memory.
> > 
> > The problem is, what is "the install media"? We don't *only* support
> > installs from USB sticks and DVDs - things the installer could
> > potentially access as local storage after starting up. We also do
> > installs where everything is retrieved over the network - PXE installs,
> > for instance.
> > 
> > There are possible ways to finesse things even in those cases - as I
> > said, Daniel started thinking them through a bit - but it's not as
> > simple as just "put this stuff on the ISO and read it off that".
> 
> It could potentially be almost that simple actually
> 
>   qemu-nbd -c https:///some.server/path/to/second.iso
>   mount /dev/nbd0 /mnt/second-iso
> 
> This uses QEMU's curl driver, which will fetch blocks of the ISO
> content only as they are accessed, so you're not pulling down the
> whole ISO if you only read 2 files from it.
> 
> The 'nbdkit' program can be used instead of qemu-nbd, and probably
> a better choice since it can layer into all sorts of interesting
> functionality that QEMU's curl layer can't offer.

This, but using kernel nbd root instead of a qemu nbd file:

https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2019/02/19/nbdkit-linuxdisk-plugin/

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones
Read my programming and virtualization blog: http://rwmj.wordpress.com
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